Talk:Lyndon Johnson
"A long career?" 22 years. No Barack Obama, but no Robert Byrd, either. Turtle Fan 04:18, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Ruminations While HT isn't as actively mean to Johnson as he is to Nixon, he does limit Johnson's roles in his bibliography to dismissive insults. At least Nixon has actually appeared a time or two. Odds are probably against LBJ being alive in THW, but with HT finally moving away from WWII a bit more, maybe he'll do something of substance with Johnson. TR (talk) 22:17, September 29, 2016 (UTC) :I remember wool-gathering about the '44 election in TWTPE, and surprising myself with the realization that LBJ actually had some points in his favor as a nominee, specifically if the Democrats were focused on outflanking Dewey. In the end I realized that a 36-year-old president is a pipe dream. But a 44-year-old, much less so, and LBJ's credentials have only gotten stronger in the intervening years. ::I hadn't meant to direct to THW specifically, but let's roll with that. Irrespective of age, any member of Congress still standing is going to be "credentialed". But you are right, 44 yo LBJ will be more seasoned. TR (talk) 15:19, September 30, 2016 (UTC) :::Guess I just assumed. He was particularly good, though, as members at this time go. If he hadn't accepted Kennedy's running mate slot (and hadn't won the White House on his own at a later date) I'm certain we'd remember him alongside Webster, Clay, and Calhoun. Hmm--''that'' might be an ATL worth exploring. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:21, October 1, 2016 (UTC) :I've been thinking that such a rattled country will be in the mood for an elder statesman, especially one who can be connected to the very comforting and encouraging memories of the defeat of the Axis. That makes Ike the man to beat. I floated a few Democrats who might be able to counter him on the Rayburn talk page, but the best are either dead or tainted by their connection with the unpopular Truman. ::Yeah, it's Ike's to lose at this point, however the election actually process actually goes. TR (talk) 15:19, September 30, 2016 (UTC) :Of those I could come up with, they're unlikely to want LBJ as a running mate, using the calculus of a vice-presidential nominee who balances the ticket. Certainly he can't run with Rayburn, and Byrnes is pretty much out too. It's not clear what he has to offer Stevenson, either. ::And HT touched on some of this with Estes Kefauver, with Truman wondering if anyone would vote for someone from below the Mason Dixon line. TR (talk) 15:19, September 30, 2016 (UTC) :::Yeah. The deaths of all the frontrunners might clear some of the usual imperiments, but it wasn't until Carter came along that southern roots stopped being a liability. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:21, October 1, 2016 (UTC) :Here's a scenario that might get LBJ into the story in a relatively big way: Truman sacks MacArthur in an effort to show he's serious about charting a new direction. It backfires when the Truman-haters accuse him of passing the buck that was supposed to stop with him, and MacArthur launches a red-meat presidential run that builds a coalition around McCarthyists and takes the GOP nomination. Democrats realize they must counter with their own war hero, but as I said, those are in short supply in their stable. ::It would be nice if HT picked up MacArthur somehow. I realize that he's probably conducting the war from Japan as he did in OTL, so he's not going to be rubbing shoulders with Cade or even Truman regularly, but the occasional "MacArthur did something goodbad! PraiseDamn him!" line would be nice. :::I was wondering if he is still in Asia, actually: It's almost more a tertiary front than a secondary, and though I could be wrong I believe he's the Army's senior officer. He's got more stars than the Chief of Staff, and he got his fifth before the CJCS did. Could be hard to justify keeping him on a sideshow. :::On the other hand, he still serves at the pleasure of the President, and Truman's not a fan. Also, as the godfather of post-WWII East Asia (well, the American sphere of influence anyway) he might not mind punching below his weight. :::At any rate, I wouldn't mind catching a general's name every now and then. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we know who's got any independent commands, anywhere. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:21, October 1, 2016 (UTC) ::Normally, I would think MacArthur in THW would be in the same position as McClellan in 191--the general who lost the war isn't going to be any more popular than the president who lost it (or made the war worse, anyway) but the scenario you propose could give MacArthur an in, since it does take what did happen in OTL and crank it up to 11. Moreover, MacArthur has one reasonably successful bit of nation rebuilding under his belt, which would probably make him further attractive. Given his narcissism and strong self-aggrandizement skills, he really could be that scary president that Truman was afraid McCarthy would be. TR (talk) 15:19, September 30, 2016 (UTC) :::I went through the same thought process. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:21, October 1, 2016 (UTC) :So they pursue an alliance with pissed-off Republican moderates by taking a page from the 1864 GOP playbook and endorsing, rather than nominating, a fusion ticket. Eisenhower's at the head, and they insist on a Democratic VP who will actually have a role to play in the administration. LBJ's very attractive now: He's a significant rising star in his own party, he's probably moderate enough for the Eisenhower Republicans to live with, he offers a more balanced ticket with Ike than he does any surviving Democratic frontrunner, and he's smart enough and industrious enough to transform the office from a political appendix to something resembling what it became under Mondale in the 70s. Hell, he could have pulled that off in OTL if only he'd gotten along with Kennedy and the Whiz Kids. ::Hell, even without MacArthur, it's not a bad idea to have cross-party nationally balanced ticket under the circumstances. Projecting national unity is important--these people learned that lesson on December 8, 1941, after all. TR (talk) 15:19, September 30, 2016 (UTC) :::Yeah, but I think nerves are much too frayed for everyone to put aside their differences and unanimously elect an unopposed ticket. Since Washington's retirement, the only time we've done that was in the Era of Good Feelings, and that's not a phrase that can describe the current state of affairs. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:21, October 1, 2016 (UTC) :That is of course assuming he's survived. But while HT has given a less-than-even-money chance of any given member of Congress surviving, he's kept it vague enough that he can still bring out anyone whom he decides might be useful. It would be a strange thing indeed to have a character consider the fusion ticket possibility only to say "Man, Senator Johnson of Texas would have been perfect for that! Too bad he's dead." Stranger still for HT to think that himself as he writes. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:54, September 30, 2016 (UTC) ::I would hope that once he got done writing that sentence, he'd immediately scratch it out and move on. ::One person whose fate I fully predict HT will lampshade is John F. Kennedy. Having JFK either survive the attack on DC or Boston, or having his death confirmed by an off the cuff remark are both in keeping with HT's tropes. TR (talk) 15:19, September 30, 2016 (UTC)